Our Global Ambassadors Program convened in London where aspiring women leaders came together with their mentors to discuss social change and economic opportunity. As part of our Program, these women were empowered to grow and build their organizations even amid challenges in their own countries.
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“Women, Progress and the Global Economy” public forum
Vital Voices and Bank of America Merrill Lynch hosted the “Women, Progress and the Global Economy” public forum in London. Watch Anne Finucane and Christiane Amanpour discuss how women leaders are impacting their communities and beyond.
[APPLAUSE]
ANNE FINUCANE: Hello, everyone. I'm Anne Finucane, and I'm joined here by Christiane Amanpour. Thank you so much for being here.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: My great pleasure. I've always supported Vital Voices, as Milan knows. Sometimes I've been dragged onto the stage in Washington. And it's been an absolute pleasure and great to see how it's grown so much and so effective.
ANNE FINUCANE: Yes. Well, thank you for being here. We want to be mindful of your time. So, the last few days and for the rest of the week, we have women from the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and North Africa, mentors and mentees talking about how to improve their business, their NGO, and on more personal levels, too. What unites these women is that they are from, many of them, war-torn areas, humanitarian issues, physical concerns. But what also unites them is courage, and tenacity, and great talent. So Christiane, everyone is always interested to know a personal story. You're a daughter of both Tehran and the West. Could you just talk a little bit about how that may have informed who you are today?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: You know, growing up as a kid in Iran to an Iranian father and a British mother, I wasn't aware of anything to do with politics, or society or, you know, women's rights, men's rights, or anything like that. It never entered my consciousness. But I was shown by example through my mother's example and my father's example that there was nothing a woman couldn't do.
So just the fact that when I left Iran, I went to the US for university, and then I entered my-- the job, I never, ever came to it with even a shred of doubt that because I was a girl or a woman, I couldn't achieve. So that put some people's noses out of joint because I was very ambitious. I was very determined to work hard and move up the ladder. But it was also incredibly liberating.
And when I look around not just Iran, but North Africa, the Middle East, when I see all these incredible legions of women who are really making a difference-- I mean, Iran today, you know, 51% of university graduates are women. And they are part of the workforce. And the workforce and the economy would be a lot poorer if the women weren't part of it.
In all the Arab Spring revolutions, you know, women were at the forefront of the revolutions. And so, you know, they were wholly accepted parts of social change. And even in war zones as you see these terrible stories and the plight of all the refugees who are coming out, women are the ones who are able to corral their families, take care, bring them out, and try to settle them.
And I remember, one of my formative experiences, obviously, was covering the war in Bosnia. And I remember, you know, because women were also targets in Sarajevo, and we didn't have electricity and there wasn't running water. But the moment there was a little bit of something human and humane, the women would rush to take advantage of it, whether it was a store that was open and they could buy something for their kid, whether it was the hairdressers that got a minimal amount of electricity so they could run their generator, so they could wash the women's hair, and dye the women's hair.
It was resistance. It wasn't vanity. It was dignity and resistance. And that, I think, is something that women bring to the table, particularly in conflict and in terrible situations. And I remember after the Iranian Revolution, when so many of our friends and people of my type-- I don't even know what to call it-- had to leave. It was the women who kept their families together because the guys, by and large, were gobsmacked. You know, they'd lost their jobs. They'd lost their dignity. They'd lost their raison d'etre. And it was the women who kept the families together and pushed us, the second generation, forward.
ANNE FINUCANE: McKinsey did a study a few years ago and it was focused on women in the Middle East. It probably is more universal. And it is for every dollar a woman earns, 60% plus goes back to the family. And it's not just their children and husband. It's their mothers, sisters, brothers. You use your platform to advance, of course, the stories of the world, but certainly women. Can you talk a little bit about that? Do you feel an obligation to do that? Do you do that consciously?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: I do it sort of consciously and unconsciously. I feel it's sort of an osmosis that has sort of happened since-- you know, I've been doing this now for 35 years. I've been at CNN nearly 35 years, 25 of those in the field. So, you know, when you're young and inexperienced, you're concentrating on doing the best, on being the best, on going up the career ladder.
And then when you get there, you figure out, well, now what can I do with it? And I'm absolutely committed to equality and to justice. And if, you know, there's no equality between men and women in the world, there is no justice and there is no progress. And you mentioned these statistics. You know, the UN has done the same. UNDP for several years did reports about why the Middle East is less developed than it should be, given its rich human potential, given its massive natural resources. Why is it not as developed as other countries, which may have less resources?
And the overriding reason is because half the population is not allowed to engage. When the women aren't engaged, the entire society doesn't thrive. And, I mean, I remember one of the most incredible pieces I remember watching on "60 Minutes" was about Muhammad Yunus. They did the first Western report on Muhammad Yunus.
And I remember him saying, you know, we gave this woman, I don't know, $0.05 cents, and she bought a goat, you know? And the goat fed the whole community, basically. Or we gave this woman, you know, $0.02 cents, and she was able to use a telephone. And that sort of was her business. And she could rent it out to-- You know, so women, actually, given a little bit-- and as we all know, women are great bets, because they pay back in full.
And you just saw these statistics about if women are equally engaged in the workforce, GDP goes up. It's not charity work to bring women into equality. It is a vital necessity for our humanity, and for the success of our civilization and of our world. I mean, even the United States would raise its GDP by 5% if women were equally engaged as men in the workforce.
I have interviewed Christine Lagarde several times. I love her. I think I got the first American interview when she first became managing director of the IMF. I was at ABC in 2011. And now I'm so thrilled that she's, by consensus, gotten her second term, and she's done a brilliant job. I asked her, you know, what is it like being a woman head of the IMF, or, you know, what is it like when you get around a negotiating table?
She said, well, we really negotiate when we're around a table. We don't look at a negotiation as a zero-sum game, that if I win, you have to lose. So we're much more sort of consensual in terms of our negotiating and problem-solving, rather than seeking a personal victory and a personal win. You know. You're a businesswoman. If you have more women around the board table, it's like in every other endeavor. It makes a difference. And, I mean, I think somebody told me-- or maybe it was Christine Lagarde-- oh, I'm going to get this wrong. But wasn't it hedge funds or something? Aren't the ones run by women-- doesn't it get a better return?
MARY: [INAUDIBLE]
ANNE FINUCANE: Yes.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Yeah. Thank you, Mary. Absolutely.
ANNE FINUCANE: And also, I might add, that, I mean, coincidence, I think not, that we now have many more women in both the boardroom and in senior management in financial services as banking. And, well, there are a lot less incidences of problems, aren't there?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Well, you know, we are.
ANNE FINUCANE: I mean, truly, because you have the discussion.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: You have the discussion. I mean, look, one of the things I think we've sort of-- we're either slow on, or we’ve failed on, or we need to do more work on is the following. Somehow, we have lost the meaning or somehow the idea of feminism has been turned into a dirty word. And if we can't figure out how to define feminism in its actual meaning and make that a positive word, then we kind of need to do a lot more work to get us over the hump.
Feminism simply means equality. That's all it means. Men and women equally represented in whatever sphere of endeavor it is. And unfortunately, too many people think it means female domination and male emasculation. And that's a real killer for those of us who are trying to have a-- you know, an equally represented world, because that is what feminism actually means. I mean, that's how the feminist movement have taken it and that's what it means.
And I think it's really sad to see younger women perhaps feel that the battle has been won, and that they don't need to be as politically, and socially, and culturally engaged in this struggle for equality. And maybe look at us, even me-- I mean, I don't consider myself old. I think I'm, like, you know, normal age.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNE FINUCANE: I call it a good age. Good age.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: [LAUGHS] It's a good age. But, I mean, it's like, no, it's not over. It's getting better, but it's not over. And if, you know, we’ve got 30% maybe in boards-- and they're not yet executive positions. That's the next struggle. It's still not quite enough. It's moving the ball forward.
ANNE FINUCANE: Could you tell us-- and I'm sure you have 1,000 of them-- but one story about a woman that you would have met along the way in any of your war-torn areas that inspired you or could inspire us? Or a moment.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Well, there were many of these kinds of stories that I came across in Sarajevo. Sarajevo, this wonderful European city that happened to be mostly Muslim, but was mixed. Beautiful, you know, European-built. Little mosques with minarets. But a very, very Western-oriented city. People who had, you know, sheltered the Jews during the-- you know, when they fled from the Spanish Inquisition, where the Haggadah is in the National Museum there in Sarajevo.
And at the time that the ordinary men, women, and children were under the most uncivilized and inhumane bombardment, where all our Western leaders refused to intervene, just like Syria. So this is why I'm so strong about Syria, by the way, because I've been there. It's called Bosnia. I am of the Bosnia generation. And Bosnia was smaller, less catastrophic just because it was smaller.
But the last huge influx of refugees into Europe was Bosnia. The last huge numbers of mass murders of civilian was in Bosnia. The last genocide in Europe was in Bosnia. And I reported that. And that was my formative, formative moment. But what always stays with me is the humanity of the people there who refused to be destroyed by this.
And the people-- you know, I saw it for men and women. But since you want a story about women, you know, these women who were not spared because they were women, you know, who were sniped and shelled along with their children at bread lines, and at water lines, and et cetera.
And one woman I went to visit one of my first weeks in Sarajevo. And she had been sitting in her apartment, which was sort of in the line of fire from the front line. And one night, a heavy round of artillery was fired through her house. And it pierced her husband's chest. And I remember she told me that. It went right through his chest and killed him right there, sitting in his armchair. And I interviewed her periodically throughout the five years of the war, four or five years of the war and afterwards.
And she had a little boy. And I never saw hate for one single moment in that woman's eyes. And I never saw her, you know, teach her kid that, you know, those dirty Serbs killed your dad and we're going to go to war again. Never. And I genuinely believe that in my experience in all the wars and disasters that I've covered, it is usually the mothers who teach their children not to hate. And, you know, who--
[APPLAUSE]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: It is still so painful. It's still so painful. And, you know, I'm sorry, but every time I get asked this question, it's still so painful, because, you know, it's so important that that's what women can do. And I see it in Afghanistan and I see it in all these places where there have been these incredible, you know, catastrophes, or wars, or whatever it is. And it's generally the women who have to keep the home together, have to keep the kids together, and understand, because they give birth, that they have to keep the generations alive. And you can only be alive if you refuse to hate.
You can only keep going and keep reproducing if you refuse to hate. And I do believe that that is what I learned in the field, and that's why I get so worried about what's going to happen in Syria, because we have now created another-- what are they going to think of us when the war's over? What are they going to think of us who didn't do anything when the war is over?
And that is going to come back to haunt us for generations. And that's what worries me. And that's why we need more women around the peace table, around the negotiating table, and in the highest halls of power. And that's what this should all be about. Women need to be, you know, in the pipeline to be, you know, presidents, and to be Prime Ministers, and to be defense ministers, and foreign ministers, and bank chairmans, and head masters and head mistresses of schools and university presidents, because that’s-- it's the only thing I can think of that would change the current dynamic. It's the only thing that hasn't been tried. It's the only thing that hasn't been tried. Let's try equality and justice.
ANNE FINUCANE: Let’s try it.
[APPLAUSE]
Christiane, thank you for your-- first of all, congratulations on all your success, and so incredible that in spite of it or because of it, you have such great conviction and a remembrance for all of us, the dignity of women. Thank you.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Thank you, Anne. Thank you all. Good luck.
[APPLAUSE]
And I remember him saying, you know, we gave this woman, I don't know, $0.05 cents, and she bought a goat, you know? And the goat fed the whole community, basically. Or we gave this woman, you know, $0.02 cents, and she was able to use a telephone. And that sort of was her business. And she could rent it out to-- You know, so women, actually, given a little bit-- and as we all know, women are great bets, because they pay back in full.
And you just saw these statistics about if women are equally engaged in the workforce, GDP goes up. It's not charity work to bring women into equality. It is a vital necessity for our humanity, and for the success of our civilization and of our world. I mean, even the United States would raise its GDP by 5% if women were equally engaged as men in the workforce.
I have interviewed Christine Lagarde several times. I love her. I think I got the first American interview when she first became managing director of the IMF. I was at ABC in 2011. And now I'm so thrilled that she's, by consensus, gotten her second term, and she's done a brilliant job. I asked her, you know, what is it like being a woman head of the IMF, or, you know, what is it like when you get around a negotiating table?
She said, well, we really negotiate when we're around a table. We don't look at a negotiation as a zero-sum game, that if I win, you have to lose. So we're much more sort of consensual in terms of our negotiating and problem-solving, rather than seeking a personal victory and a personal win. You know. You're a businesswoman. If you have more women around the board table, it's like in every other endeavor. It makes a difference. And, I mean, I think somebody told me-- or maybe it was Christine Lagarde-- oh, I'm going to get this wrong. But wasn't it hedge funds or something? Aren't the ones run by women-- doesn't it get a better return?
MARY: [INAUDIBLE]
ANNE FINUCANE: Yes.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Yeah. Thank you, Mary. Absolutely.
ANNE FINUCANE: And also, I might add, that, I mean, coincidence, I think not, that we now have many more women in both the boardroom and in senior management in financial services as banking. And, well, there are a lot less incidences of problems, aren't there?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Well, you know, we are.
ANNE FINUCANE: I mean, truly, because you have the discussion.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: You have the discussion. I mean, look, one of the things I think we've sort of-- we're either slow on, or we’ve failed on, or we need to do more work on is the following. Somehow, we have lost the meaning or somehow the idea of feminism has been turned into a dirty word. And if we can't figure out how to define feminism in its actual meaning and make that a positive word, then we kind of need to do a lot more work to get us over the hump.
Feminism simply means equality. That's all it means. Men and women equally represented in whatever sphere of endeavor it is. And unfortunately, too many people think it means female domination and male emasculation. And that's a real killer for those of us who are trying to have a-- you know, an equally represented world, because that is what feminism actually means. I mean, that's how the feminist movement have taken it and that's what it means.
And I think it's really sad to see younger women perhaps feel that the battle has been won, and that they don't need to be as politically, and socially, and culturally engaged in this struggle for equality. And maybe look at us, even me-- I mean, I don't consider myself old. I think I'm, like, you know, normal age.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNE FINUCANE: I call it a good age. Good age.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: [LAUGHS] It's a good age. But, I mean, it's like, no, it's not over. It's getting better, but it's not over. And if, you know, we’ve got 30% maybe in boards-- and they're not yet executive positions. That's the next struggle. It's still not quite enough. It's moving the ball forward.
ANNE FINUCANE: Could you tell us-- and I'm sure you have 1,000 of them-- but one story about a woman that you would have met along the way in any of your war-torn areas that inspired you or could inspire us? Or a moment.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Well, there were many of these kinds of stories that I came across in Sarajevo. Sarajevo, this wonderful European city that happened to be mostly Muslim, but was mixed. Beautiful, you know, European-built. Little mosques with minarets. But a very, very Western-oriented city. People who had, you know, sheltered the Jews during the-- you know, when they fled from the Spanish Inquisition, where the Haggadah is in the National Museum there in Sarajevo.
And at the time that the ordinary men, women, and children were under the most uncivilized and inhumane bombardment, where all our Western leaders refused to intervene, just like Syria. So this is why I'm so strong about Syria, by the way, because I've been there. It's called Bosnia. I am of the Bosnia generation. And Bosnia was smaller, less catastrophic just because it was smaller.
But the last huge influx of refugees into Europe was Bosnia. The last huge numbers of mass murders of civilian was in Bosnia. The last genocide in Europe was in Bosnia. And I reported that. And that was my formative, formative moment. But what always stays with me is the humanity of the people there who refused to be destroyed by this.
And the people-- you know, I saw it for men and women. But since you want a story about women, you know, these women who were not spared because they were women, you know, who were sniped and shelled along with their children at bread lines, and at water lines, and et cetera.
And one woman I went to visit one of my first weeks in Sarajevo. And she had been sitting in her apartment, which was sort of in the line of fire from the front line. And one night, a heavy round of artillery was fired through her house. And it pierced her husband's chest. And I remember she told me that. It went right through his chest and killed him right there, sitting in his armchair. And I interviewed her periodically throughout the five years of the war, four or five years of the war and afterwards.
And she had a little boy. And I never saw hate for one single moment in that woman's eyes. And I never saw her, you know, teach her kid that, you know, those dirty Serbs killed your dad and we're going to go to war again. Never. And I genuinely believe that in my experience in all the wars and disasters that I've covered, it is usually the mothers who teach their children not to hate. And, you know, who--
[APPLAUSE]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: It is still so painful. It's still so painful. And, you know, I'm sorry, but every time I get asked this question, it's still so painful, because, you know, it's so important that that's what women can do. And I see it in Afghanistan and I see it in all these places where there have been these incredible, you know, catastrophes, or wars, or whatever it is. And it's generally the women who have to keep the home together, have to keep the kids together, and understand, because they give birth, that they have to keep the generations alive. And you can only be alive if you refuse to hate.
You can only keep going and keep reproducing if you refuse to hate. And I do believe that that is what I learned in the field, and that's why I get so worried about what's going to happen in Syria, because we have now created another-- what are they going to think of us when the war's over? What are they going to think of us who didn't do anything when the war is over?
And that is going to come back to haunt us for generations. And that's what worries me. And that's why we need more women around the peace table, around the negotiating table, and in the highest halls of power. And that's what this should all be about. Women need to be, you know, in the pipeline to be, you know, presidents, and to be Prime Ministers, and to be defense ministers, and foreign ministers, and bank chairmans, and head masters and head mistresses of schools and university presidents, because that’s-- it's the only thing I can think of that would change the current dynamic. It's the only thing that hasn't been tried. It's the only thing that hasn't been tried. Let's try equality and justice.
ANNE FINUCANE: Let’s try it.
[APPLAUSE]
Christiane, thank you for your-- first of all, congratulations on all your success, and so incredible that in spite of it or because of it, you have such great conviction and a remembrance for all of us, the dignity of women. Thank you.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Thank you, Anne. Thank you all. Good luck.
[APPLAUSE]" />
4/9/2019
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